Thoughts on Nationalism - Update

I have on several occasions made my thoughts on nationalism quite clear, here for example. Having just caught up on the days news this story ony goes to highlight my natural abhorence of all forms of nationalism, especially those more extremist forms that promulgate what amounts to terrorism. Nationaloism can be wrapped in whatever banner it likes, but at the end of the day those of the far right who see themselves as “white suprematists” are actually no better than the Islamic Fundamentalists. A terrorist by any other name is still nothing more than a terrorist!

Read the Words Hereward!

These bloody people can’t read, the English Nationalists that is, they simply appear to be completely illiterate! I have today deleted five comments from Hereward the Wake as he/she calls him/herself; these comments were deleted because they were of an insulting nature despite all of the warnings that these idiots have had. The last warning was telling them that comments were to be moderated, and yet friend Hereward the Wake (perhaps he/she should rename him/herself Hereward the Twat) still continues trotting out all of the usual insults and crap that these people spout regularly in their pathetic blogs and forums. These bigoted, racist hypocrites just love takeing the words of others (of course they have none of their own) and twist them to their own perverted purposes. These are the people who want an English Parliament; well all I can say is that if these are the people who are going to be running an English Parliament then God help us I want nothing to do with it, because these are the people who are feeding the religious fanatics the fodder upon which they thrive…

Update:

After giving it a little thought today I have decided to give you a flavour of the type of pea-brained, insignificant, racist, bigoted, hypocritical moron that wants to be running an English Parliament:-

Still typing your shite bondjoke? Has anyone noticed yet? Ha! ha! I doubt it. Still, keep trying. You never know you might get the audience you crave one day. Toodle pip you insignificant dirtbag.

English grand committee ha! ha! Our Parliament back nto long after you cunt! Stick that in yer fuckin’ arse. Yeeeehawwwww we’re taking back what’s ours bit by bit and there aint nothing you can do to stop us. Read it and weep yer twat.

This is just a very small sample of the insulting crap, found in the comments this morning, that those like friend - and I use the word sarcastically here - Hereward resort to when they can’t think of a good argument with which they can enter into a reasoned debate. Their argument is ALWAYS the same “I’m right and you are wrong”; and, as you can see, when against the wall they resort to good old Anglo saxon invective. Although to be fair Hereward the Pea-brain did use a term that I think I would wear as a badge of honour when he brands me a “liberal internationalist”, which I think suits my outlook on the world quite well.

He also pulls me up for my use of language:-

I think you’ll find that “phallacy” is actually spelt fallacy; then again, i’m not surprised that an obviously frustrated homosexualist like yourself would make such a fraudian slip! Know what I mean you pole smoker?

when he doesn’t even have the intelligence to recognise the fact that I am playing with words deliberately here, pathetic really. As for being a “frustrated homosexualist”, well this pea-brained, bigoted, hypocritical moron doesn’t even know me (and I certainly have no desire to “know” him); although maybe he is simply transferring his own frustrated sexuality onto those he wishes to attack. I think that he was trying to point out that I had made a Freudian slip, but I think that his own term “fraudian slip” is better by a country mile, as it is just so descriptive of these bloody frauds!

Conclusion:

What is the point of entering into a war of words with the unarmed!

Fallen from the Gutter into the Sewer…

I had thought of The Sun as being pretty much equal in terms of the gutter press, but having read this piece of unmitigated shite this morning it strikes me that The Sun no longer resides in the gutter, but has fallen head first into the sewer, if not the cesspit, that is nationalistic, jingoistic journalism. Thanks BondWoman for bringing my attention to Mark Mardell’s thoughts on this piece of journalistic crap, pointedly entitled “A Done Deal” in which he says this:-

The Sun breathes fire in today’s editorial and threatens to keep up its campaign until the next general election. As it warns that Britain’s existence as an independent sovereign state has been extinguished, I presume it will abandon what it must believe has become the worthless charade of covering Westminster politics, and I look forward to welcoming its political staff as they are all shipped out to Brussels to report on the real action.

The Sun’s editorial, if that is what it can be called is just the sort of crap that attracts the more undesirable elements of the Nationalists in its promotion of the fear of the other; its constant drip, drip, drip of we don’t want anyone who is not one of us here, we don’t want to be part of a wider Europe etc. etc.. “The Sun Says” has become the most unacceptable face of editorial pages in recent years, and to name it “The Sun Says” is, in my humble opinion, quite, quite laughable; it should be renamed “Rupert Murdoch Says”!

As I pointed out in a previous post:-

…my message is: forget all of the petty squabbling, who is slagging off who etc. etc., it is time everyone got their acts together and started pulling in the same direction rather than in a dozen different directions. Instead of sitting around and whingeing about the stupid things that define our lives, get out there and do something about the important things that SHOULD define our lives… …it is this sort of rubbish that attracts the racists, bigots, and hypocrites that want to withdraw from the wider world, the sort of people who give the fanatics the fodder with which they feed their hatred. It is this sort of people who turn Nationalism into Insularity.

Woolly Discrimination?

Sometimes one just has to laugh, and this is simply one of those occasions, I give you this:-

Click image for a larger version.

For those interested I found this here, and for those who can’t be bothered to follow the link, this is the text:-

Don’t let your sheep wonder across the border if you’re in southern Scotland… anyone else heard that Scottish farmers are being compensated if they cull on welfare grounds, but farmers in exactly the same position in Cumbria are having to feed winter stocks to all the lambs and cast ewes that should have been shunted off to market by now.

So now even English sheep are discriminated against…

Now, once one has stopped laughing, the question that comes to mind is, just what planet are these people on?

Nationalism = Insularity?

The Nationalists, particularly the English Nationalists, seem to have a thing about people talking about Britishness; this is something that I find quite hard to understand, especially given what Great Britain has given the world, and still has to give. One would have thought that it would make people proud to say that they are British, but no it seems that the nationalists are hell bent on rejecting this identity in favour of a more closed and insular identity; and I have to say that I find this quite weird. I am Cornish, not a Cornish Nationalist, but nonetheless Cornish, it is what I am and I see that identity as being a part of the wider identity of being British, which in turn is part of the wider identity of being European. My sense of identity is far from insular, and gives me no sense of a fear of the other (that is those who are different, either culturally or ethnically); in fact I treat people from other cultures and ethnic groups with respect and welcome what they have to offer in terms of knowledge etc.. As far as I can see this fear of the term British is sponsored, and reinforced, by the gutter press (The Sun, The Mail, The Express etc. etc.) and is lapped up by those readers who never bother to stop and think about what they read, and just take it for granted that if it is in the paper then it must be so. All this does is to promote a much narrower, more insular sense of identity; a sense of identity which shuns the different, which excludes “the other”, such people want only those who are “like us”, those who think and act like themselves. This is one of the many reasons that I dislike nationalism of any kind because this kind of nationalist identity leads us in only one direction, that of insularity.

When we should be engaging with the wider world, and with Europe in particular, to give a lead on such things as climate change, there are those who would close our borders, who would withdraw us from such wider engagement with the world, who would basically have us bury our heads in the sand, and who would change it from “Great Britain” to “Britain”, losing the greatness altogether. If the “big” problems, such as climate change are going to be tackled then we have to be in there at the forefront, leading by example; leading being the operative word. It is no good hiding behind the sofa, such problems are NOT going to go away, they are here and here to stay unless something is done, and done soon; we do not have the luxury of time, a couple of decades at most before the situation becomes irreversible. A couple of decades, twenty years, a very short time indeed; and we don’t even have the luxury of using this time, if we are going to make changes they have to start being made RIGHT NOW!

So my message is: forget all of the petty squabbling, who is slagging off who etc. etc., it is time everyone got their acts together and started pulling in the same direction rather than in a dozen different directions. Instead of sitting around and whingeing about the stupid things that define our lives, get out there and do something about the important things that SHOULD define our lives… This is a prime example of the STUPID things that people are letting define who they are; it is this sort of rubbish that attracts the racist’s. bigots, and hypocrites that want to withdraw from the wider world, the sort of people who give the fanatics the fodder with which they feed their hatred. It is this sort of people who turn Nationalism into Insularity. I am not going to comment on this piece because I actually think that there are far more important issues in the world than this bit of nationalist nonsense!

Reasons for an English Parliament…

In a recent trawl of the Nationalist websites and forums I kept a note of the main reasons that were stated for wanting an English Parliament by those people who frequent such places; and here are just ten of the reasons, and I point out that these are direct quotes:-

i Scotland is sucking the life blood of England
ii The Scots are anti-English wankers and we want rid of them
iii England is being ruled by the Scots
iv The English are a violently suppressed minority
v There are too many immigrants and asylum seekers claiming the benefit that only the Engish are entitled to
vi Scotland has one so we should have one too
vii The English are superior and should have a say in what happens to them
viii We want our country back
ix We are fed up with paying for Scotland
x We want out of Europe

I have not bothered to rank these reasons at all, so they are simply presented as they got selected. For a moment there I thought that I had regressed some fifty years and was back in the playground once more with some kid screaming “I’m not playing any more, and I’m taking my bat and ball as well”, such is the degree of petulance displayed. I really could not believe that it is grown people who are saying such things; I refrain from saying thinking people, because I don’t think that they think at all, they just follow the lead of people like Sue Reid, who writes such vitriolic crap as this, in the Daily Mail, who promulgate such hypocrisy, bigotry and racism every day in the gutter press.

I am not a fan of Nationalism in any form, and have stated that plainly elswhere in this blog. However, and here I will head off the Nationalists by saying that I have no problem with an English Parliament; but it has to be thought through very carefully, and take into account all nationalities living in England along with ensuring some autonomy for the regions. The one thing that I do have a problem with is that the English Nationalist movement has become the home of choice for so many of the vitriolic, racist, bigoted and hypocritical hotheads who spout such rubbish as we find above; the people who provide the fodder upon which all kinds of fanatics can feed.

Yet Another Whinge…

I found this vitrolic piece of crap in the same place as yesterday’s. I will pick out just one piece of it for comment:-

Here are more examples of the ‘benefits’ Scots in office have visited upon England, for it is England which bears the brunt of it all when being mismanaged by one Scot after another!

All I can ask is why keep on whingeing about it? It just gets more and more boring as the weeks pass; I would remind these whingers that it was the English who voted these people into Westminster, so if anyone is to blame it is themselves. The one thing that I can’t understand is why they don’t stop whingeing and bloody well do something constructive for once!

I also have to say that this is a typical piece of Daily Mail sensationalism, but then what more can we expect from a rag whose most fitting place would be a nail behind the toilet door, even then I would think several times before wiping my arse with it.

Talk about Paranoid

There is nothing more that I can say about this incoherent, misinformed, paranoid load of rubbish other than to say read this and weep at the vitriolic, misinformed garbage that these so called guardians of Englishness pour forth…

I could not even be bothered to cut and paste the misinformed bits to address them as it would be impossible to know where to start!

A Message for the Nationalists

This is for all of those “Little Englander’s” out there:-

The world
in which you were born
is just one model
of reality.

Other Cultures
ARE NOT
failed attempts
at being you,
they are unique
manifestations
of the human spirit!

I suggest it is read and thought upon!

Gurdeep: A Response…

OK so I have been accused of several things by the author of Waking Hereward; basically the accusations boil down to not responding to a particular comment here in a manner that was thought to be required. I give you from here:-

Anyway, I trolled down the comments, gradually losing the will to read and despising the hectoring control freakery with which Numptie revels – until I happened upon Gurdeep’s comment, posted on July 2nd of this year.. I have copied it below in its entirety. There is also Numptie’s feeble response – and Gurdeep’s reply. I reckon the comments policy has just had to be redefined as Numptie gets a comment from someone who doesn’t fit his stereotypical pigeon holes…..

There are several accusations here; “the hectoring control freakery with which Numptie revels”, “Numptie’s feeble response”, and last but not least putting people into “stereotypical pigeon holes”.

So let me deal with these points: a) the hectoring control freakery with which Numptie revels: if the deleting of insulting and abusive comments whislt at the same time preparing to engage in a “reasoned” debate is “control freakery” then yes I suppose that I am a control freak; however a control freak that believes in the freedom of speech and who will defend anyone’s right to voice their opinion. b) Numptie’s feeble response: well the response I made to a comment was:-

I will come back to your points Gurdeep when I return home from a short trip…

Well I am back from the short trip and have had several very busy months since; also I do not respond to anything that I have not checked out for myself, unlike those in the English Nationalist movement who tend to shoot off their mouths before checking the facts. I fully intend to respond to Gurdeep’s comment, and that is what this post is all about. c) stereotypical pigeon holes: well this just made me laugh coming from someone who supports the inherent divisiveness of English Nationalism!

So next a response:

First of all let me make it quite clear from the outset, as I have stated in a comment eslewhere:-

“I have little time for the more extreme faces of Nationalism of any kind; one only has to look back to the 1930’s to see where rampant nationalism led us, into a second world war! On the other hand I do not and never have denied that there is a case for an English Parliament, but I temper that with the caveat that it must be properly thought out and take all of the English regions into consideration; something that most of the English Nationalists who visit here find hard to understand.”

I wanted to make that point in order that I cannot be accused of taking sides with any particular brand of nationalism.

I also think that it is wrong to lump all Nationalists together as there are good and bad apples in every barrel; and I have no time for those hotheaded Cornish Nationalists who are giving all Cornish Nationalists a bad name in the same way that the hotheads within English Nationalism that I attack are giving English Nationalism a bad name. I happen to know a couple of people who take an English Nationalist stance who absolutely agree with me about the vitriolic, racist bigots who have attached themselves to the cause.

I agree that we do not “see English nationalists burning British, Scottish, Welsh or Cornish flags“; but what we do see from the hotheads is far, far worse in that their attitudes are divisive in that they are hell bent on setting minority against minority, of promoting a highlighting of “difference”. For instance there is a move afoot to have a seperate box on the census form for those who want to define themselves as English, Simon Maine over on Unlock Democracy puts it far better that I can when he says:-

The problem is that this census encourages people to separate themselves on the grounds of race as well as nationality. I accept that many families are English-based and stretch back for generations. There are perfect grounds to claim English national identity, but it says sweet FA about their ethnicity, nor should it. After so many years of cultural and racial ‘cross-pollination’, I would be surprised if someone could truly tell apart an Englishman from a Scotsman, an Irishman or a Welshman. Is there really any distinguishing marker that the English maintain to themselves in this modern age?

It is a corollary of bringing democracy closer to the people that it will necessarily stir up feelings of national pride and identity. This can be a healthy reaction. However, what we do not want is for it to stir up feelings of racial and ethnic differences within these Isles. The English may have an identity but it is specious to deduce from that they have an ethnicity as well. We must quickly separate the devolution debate from its potential for racialism if we are to move forward without controversy.

Gurdeep says that

The English accept that multiple identities are possible because the vast majority of them, even the most passionate Englishmen, tend to also feel British or have some strong regional identity, or perhaps some other ethnic identity like Indian. This is something that the Celtic nationalists don’t really understand, much less appreciate. England is much more tolerant and multicultural in this respect.

Here I do disagree; I suspect that most English people couldn’t give a damn about who comes from where, or about the ethnicity of those around them, they are too busy living their own lives; it is just the minority who want to highlight such differences. I would also say that the Celtic Nationalists perfectly understand all about multiculturalism; you only have to come to Edinburgh and Glasgow, both of which have diverse multicultural communities. Not only that but all of the ethnic communities rub along quite well together on the whole. Now I am not saying that there is an absence of racism or bigotry buried within these various communities, that would be inherently stupid of me, because there is, although not to the extent that one sees from the more unacceptabale face of English Nationalism.

Finally, I have to agree with Gurdeep when he states that he does not “understand the animosity that this debate generates“; neither do I. I was raised to respect my fellow human being regardless of sex, colour, creed etc. etc., and that is precisely what I try to do; however, those who are hell bent on the divisiveness of racism and bigotry do severely stretch my capacity to respect them.

Hopefully I have addressed, to some extent, the points raised by Gurdeep; although I know that it will not be to the satisfaction of the English Nationalists, because as we all know “they are right and I am wrong”, which is always their starting poing in any argument.

English Identity?

This is so typical of the English Nationalists; condemn something completely out of hand before even giving it a chance, as we can see here:-

Andrew Marr will be narrating a programme about the English on Monday 3rd September at 9.00am on Radio 4.

Should make interesting reading, as it always is when a Scot talks about the English in such an “inciteful way”

Hope you manage to catch it.

I mean it is interesting that the author of this diatribe should know that Andrew Marr was going to be talking in an “inciteful way” on his series “Unmasking the English” before the first programme was even broadcast! I also like the fact that a radio programme “Should make interesting reading“; maybe I have been under a misapprehension for all these years, and I should have been reading the radio instead of listening to it! But then what can one expect from such people who will take any opportunity for an anti-Scottish rant, and after all Andrew Marr is definitely “not one of us old boy!” (English that is). I have to say that I think that Andrew Marr is an excellent, and completely ubiased journalist, and , having missed the programme this morning, I am looking forward to listening to the repeat this evening as I think it will be an interesting and illuminating programme.

It is just such a pity that the English Nationalist have to shoot their mouths off before actually gathering the evidence to support their arguments, not that there is much evidence of them being a “victimised minority” to be found in the first place. If they actually bothered to take the trouble to research their claims then, just maybe, it might be possible to have a reasoned debate with them. Oh, but I forget, their idea of a reasoned debate is “we are right and you are all wrong”, and if all else fails the whole thing descends into insults and abuse…

Nationalists Target Take-aways: Further Thoughts

Having slept on yesterday’s post some further thoughts arise in my mind about the whole takeaway thing, and this apart from the racism by implication that is inherent within this piece. Thoughts such as, did the person who wrote it do so after going for a curry, or a Chinese? But seriously, I have gone into a fair few grotty chippies in my time, and have simply walked out again; surely it is not beyond the wit of the average person to notice that such an establishment is not up to the required hygiene standards and to vote with their feet (just walk out), in most cases just the look and smell of such a place is enough for me. The other thing that springs to mind is does the author of this diatribe eat only English food; and if so what does she/he define as “English food”. Personally I think that it is almost impossible to define these days given that the national cuisines have become so fused, with Chinese, Indian, Mexican, Italian etc. etc. influences having crept into the everyday thinking of most people when it comes to thoughts of both eating and cooking. I know that I personally, as someone who enjoys cooking, would not be without a great deal of the herbs and spices from around the world that have come to be so commonplace in today’s kitchens. Also to pick up on the point of what is “English food” once more, such a definition is also almost impossible from another point of view; given the centuries of people coming across from the continent and settling here, the Angles, Saxes’, Jutes, Vikings, Huguenots, Norman French etc. etc. who really knows just what “English food” really is, or even what it was? Maybe the author should take a long hard look at what she/he eats before being so quick to condemn “non-English” takeaways in such a racist manner.

Nationalists Target Take-aways!

Yes indeed takeaways are the latest target of the English Nationalists, no, not the good old English chippy, but those “takeaway outlets [that] are non English“. It seems that the high number of takeaway establishments being closed in Leicester for hygiene related issues has drawn their attention. Their take on the issue runs along the lines of ethnic cleansing, with the English being the minority being cleansed, I give you:-

Many may view the replacement of the English chippy by foreign Takeaways etc as a great example of multi culture.
Though some may say it is cultural cleansing of the English.

What can I say? Well, this is just a little more of the tabloid thinking of such people, thinking along the lines of “well they’re not one of us old boy, what more can you expect from ‘filthy foriegners’?”.

Justice for England…

This so called list if aims posted on the Justice for England website seems to me to be nothing more nor less than an anti-Scottish/ anti Welsh rant. I know not where the “so-called” facts come from but I very much doubt that they would stand close scrutiny if push came to shove.

I have said before and will continue to say that if these people stopped and took a good lok at their aims and thought them through properly, instead of swallowing the Scotophobia being fosterd by the tabloid press mainly, and the Torygraph specifically then maybe, just maybe they would come up with something worth reading, something that has a little common sense.

BondWoman sent me a link to a very interesting piece on the very topic of Scotophobia a couple of days back; I haven’t read it in detail (be warned it is quite a long piece), but I have read enough to know that it is a very thought provoking piece indeed. The English Nationalists need to take a step back, think about what they want, come up with a scheme that will work, and that includes thinking about the regions of England also; but most of all they want to disassociate themsleves from the virulent, vitriolic, racist bigots that they seem to be attracting, most of whom are simply parrotting what they read in the Scotophobic press.

Accusations!

Well, I have been accused of “petty bigotry”:-

By condemning them all as Sun, Express and Mail readers aren’t you displaying your own petty bigotry?

See the comment here. What a laugh that gave me!

Totally intolerant and curmudgeonly maybe, but bigoted NEVER!

Ironically this comes from someone supporting those virulent, vitriolic bigots and racists who are the unacceptable face of English Nationalism.

Now I would like to make a few things quite clear, once again, as the message does not seem to ever get through:-

a) I am not now and never have spoken against an English Parliament, however, I have voiced my opinion that it would be totally counter intuitive in the form that the English Nationalists want it. This opinion is completely alien to them and they would love to be able to censor anyone who has the temerity to voice it.

b) I do not normally censor people who comment here as I am a stern defender of the right of free speech. The only time that a commentor will be censored is if they do not obey the rules as set out in my comments policy; any insulting, vulgar, bigoted or plain racist comments will be deleted, or at the very least edited.

c) I will not tolerate anyone who tries to use that age old ploy of the English Nationalists when entering into a debate, i.e. the old “I am right and you are wrong” type of argument, and anyone who uses such a ploy in the comments will soon be shown for the complete idiots that they usually are.

Other than that I am always interested in what people think, and find it quite amusing when I am accused of such things as “petty bigotry” when actually the better words would have been “totaly intolerant”; but then I suppose that few people would even recognise the difference between bigotry and intolerance as there is quite a fine dividing line.

Update 1 - 11:20am:

For those who have taken the trouble to read, rather than pick out bits that they don’t like, this is precisely the sort of thing I am talking about; people who do not bother to read, and understand, what I write before passing judgement. They have no respect for anyone other than the narrow minded, racist bigots that they associate with.

Just as a side point “Numptie” is a badge I wear with pride as it only goes to prove my point that when faced with arguments against them these people can do nothing more than resort to insults!

Update 2 - 1:15pm:

It does seem like I am rufflng a few feathers here, perhaps they simply don’t like the truth! I give you this which was sent to my email at 12:45 today from a person who obviously did not want to share his/her opinion with the general public:-

Hi old git

When you call all patriots as you do below.

“Ironically this comes from someone supporting those virulent, vitriolic bigots and racists who are the unacceptable face of English Nationalism”.

Don’t forget your patriotic bigoted racist people are already years ahead of the English.
Helped by the Scottish Raj in westminister that have lead to you talk the way you do about the English.
because if it was not for TB and his fellow Scottish gimps. we would not be talking about this sort of crap.

So before you go on slandering the bulk of the English whom pay for your existence have another think. don’t fancy giving me your real address do you?

Quite charming don’t you think? I think it is soon going to be necessary to add violent to virulent and vitriolic as there does seem to be a degree of implied violence here. If this person had taken the trouble to read and understand what I write he/she would have come across this in a recent reply to a comment:-

I have little time for the more extreme faces of Nationalism of any kind; one only has to look back to the 1930’s to see where rampant nationalism led us, into a second world war! On the other hand I do not and never have denied that there is a case for an English Parliament, but I temper that with the caveat that it must be properly thought out and take all of the English regions into consideration; something that most of the English Nationalists who visit here find hard to understand.

In this short paragraph the operative words are “the more extreme faces of Nationalism of any kind“, which does actually mean what it says; whether they be Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Cornish or English Nationalists there will always be a small minority who run to the extremes and who become the “virulent, vitriolic bigots and racists“, and who are the unacceptable face of Nationalism.